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Cigar Rebel
Cigar Strength V Flavor Boldness
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You are listening to the Cigar Rebel podcast. In this episode of Cigar Rebel we will discuss the different of Cigar Strength Versus Flavor Boldness. Join the conversation as we take the time to enjoy one of life’s luxuries on this quirky journey we call life.
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Welcome to the Cigar Rebel community, where indulgence meets authenticity. This is more than a podcast, it's a gathering place for those who savor life's luxuries with unapologetic passion. Here we celebrate the fine art of living through rich flavors, bold spirits, exquisite cigars, and unforgettable experiences.
SPEAKER_01And I'm coming, we're coming to you live tonight from a beautiful East Texas sitting on our deck. It is gorgeous outside.
SPEAKER_04Yes, 100%. Spring hopefully is here for us here in Texas, and so is the pollen, which I'm hoping that will be leaving pretty soon, to be honest. Pollens awful.
SPEAKER_01But we are coming tonight with a topic and a discussion that some of you have asked for, many of you have waited on. We're going to be talking about balance, flavor intensity versus strength. One of the most misunderstood and misdiscussed topics in the cigar industry today, and not just by consumers and smokers, I believe, Mel and I believe, even by a lot of industry professionals, it just gets jumbled up. It's confusing.
SPEAKER_04Yes. So I hear this constantly from people that someone will say that cigar was just too strong for me. And every time I want to ask the question, what do you mean by strong?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and the reason why is nine out of ten times they're actually not describing strength at all.
SPEAKER_04Right. They are honestly talking about intensity.
SPEAKER_01Right. They're talking about spiciness, they're talking about boldness, they're talking about complexity because there's a lot happening in the cigar, but rarely are they talking about strength in general, especially that early on in the smoking experience.
SPEAKER_04Yes. So tonight we are going to uh hopefully clear this up for everyone. Uh, we want to have that meaningful discussion on flavor intensity versus strength. And some of you guys may disagree with us, and that's kind of what makes this fun. So excited about that.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, because if you don't understand um the difference between intensity of flavor and strength of nicotine, you're probably gonna be buying the wrong cigars over and over again.
SPEAKER_04Yes, and you might want to blame the cigar when really it wasn't the cigar's fault. So, Rebels tonight, let's go ahead and cut lights and settle in.
SPEAKER_01And so, Mel, why don't you go ahead and tell us what we're smoking time?
SPEAKER_04So, tonight we are smoking the San Letano.
SPEAKER_01Let me sorry, give me two seconds. We're having technical difficulties quite all right, perfect, go for it.
SPEAKER_04So, we're doing the San Letano Requiem Habano by AJ Fernandez. It has a Brazilian Habano wrapper, Nicaraguan binder, and the Nicaraguan Honduran and the Dominican Republic fillers. So I'm excited to have the cigar. I saw a comment in there that they were chones in for a cigar because they were busy today. That I think has been our life as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we're gonna pause for a second, Mel. They're talking about audio. So we were working on audio actually is one of the things I was going to ask you guys about. So thank you for throwing that out there. Um we've been making some changes on our audio side, so give us one quick second.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, hopefully that's coming the sound's coming better for you.
SPEAKER_01Alright, we're gonna take that as a positive.
SPEAKER_04Yep. Uh do we want to get our cigars lit?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, let's go and lot our cigars. Our ladding is brought to you tonight by Big Sky Cigar Company.
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SPEAKER_04Uh, we didn't talk about the cold draw before I went to break, so I was uh fortunate enough to be able to take a couple of draws on this before I lit it. Um, for those of you smoking along with us, go ahead and drop in the comments how you guys are feeling about the cigar, what flavor notes you're getting off of it. Um, but as far as the cold draw goes, for me, I got a lot of um some woodiness in there and uh a little bit of spice. How about you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so there's a little bit of a sweet hay on that cold draw along with that earthiness. Um probably said woodiness, I would say earthiness. Um, definitely enjoying that. Now that it's lit, um, there's definitely a little bit of that woodiness, a little bit of that spice. Um, this Brazilian Habano wrapper is um fantastic. Um, from I love Habanos, and this is going well. So sorry, I am so focused on the audio. I'm so confused here for a second. Uh, now that we're back from cutting and lighting our cigar, um, made additional adjustments. I think the hum on our side is out of it, um, but would love to know from you guys. Uh, Douglas is saying he's enjoying an LSA, a Lone Star Attitude, and a Dublin craft soda. Absolutely love that cigar. Um, Mel that had strong flavor and strength when it um inventory sheet with each level. Um, and then um he said oh, San Antonio has a punch, but very flavorful. They hit a mint in the initial draw, very earthy and woody with some smoked paprika. I would agree with that. Um, again, please give us feedback tonight on how the sound is. We made some adjustments. This should be better, um, but just wanting to make sure we are taking care of you guys. We have two new microphones on order that we're gonna try and shift over for those. Um, someone had given us one to try and don't know what it is with these. Maybe it's all the moving around that's happened. Um, but wanting to jump right into the topic tonight, um, Mel, you had talked about how do we clear up this discussion, right? Of strength versus flavor intensity. Um, I had mentioned that if you don't understand the difference between flavor intensity and strength, that you are going to potentially purchase the wrong cigars throughout. Um, and so definitely want to make sure that we address that and really walk through that um tonight. So help us set up the framework, the two dials.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so we have mentioned this on a previous podcast, uh, but we'll go over and tonight, especially for this topic. Every cigar is going to have two independent dials. The first one is going to be the flavor intensity, and the second one is going to be the nicotine strength. So they can move together or they can move separately, and that's honestly where a lot of the confusion begins is when you're thinking about those two dials. So flavor intensity is going to be about what your mouth is experiencing, and then the strength is going to be about what your body is experiencing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And so when you're looking at those two different things, one is sensory and one is physiological.
SPEAKER_04Yes. And some review platforms they go ahead and separate these concepts, even if cigar smokers don't.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. Welcome to Martin from Toronto. And we had somebody earlier from Brazil um having a hard time keeping up a little bit. Um, Richard said no headphones, just speaker on the iPhone. Um, made another adjustment. Um, so hopefully that's doing well. Um, definitely Leslie commented Lou, of course, he has excellent taste. He married me. Um, absolutely love that comment. Um Dwayne said uh she has the palette, but she isn't here, so she has a mimic me tonight. Laugh out loud. That is so funny. Um, jumping into this concept, in many reviews, you will see body and flavor intensity described separately from strength or nicotine impact. The problem is you'll also read and listen to so many that do not separate those two facts, and they'll just call it body or they'll just say medium to full. But what you really do is you end up blending flavor and strength into one score, one kind of description.
SPEAKER_04Yes, and so that is where um you can get confused with the two, and so even in the conversations between seasoned smokers, peace people are going to mash these two things together.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things we really want to do is make sure that you kind of turn back the dials, you kind of set the stage, right?
SPEAKER_04Absolutely. So flavor intensity is volume, uh, not good or bad, not strong or weak, just loud or quiet, bold and flavorful or milder with hints of flavor.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And then when you think about cigars in this category, flavor intensity, what you're thinking about is cigars that described as big pepper, espresso balms, um, molasses or dark chocolate, hints of coffee, charred oak, heavy earth, dense smoke, all of these are intensity, not strength.
SPEAKER_04Yes, so you can have that cigar that's bursting with flavor transitions and has thick smoke. It's gonna have a bold spice, but it's very manageable nicotine-wise. And the cigar can be complex with transitions and flavors that wow or can even overwhelm your sensations without them actually being strong.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And now one reviewer that I was looking at as we're preparing for tonight described the cigar as full-bodied in flavor and about a medium in strength. I love that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, exactly. That flavor body and strength are separate descriptors for a reason, and I I love that he categorized it that way.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, and so what happens is flavor intensity affects how engaged your senses are, how engaged your palate is in the smoking experience. High intensity demands attention, it may have complexity, it may change rapidly, um, it feels layered, there's transitions in the cigar, it keeps you analyzing throughout. Whereas low intensity is more creamy, it's smooth, it's subtle, there's hints of flavor, but it's not as overwhelming to your palate. And that's why you can have a cigar that's actually not super strong, but is very, very intense and overwhelms your palate. You can also have a cigar that's very, very strong that you're really almost getting nothing on.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and really it's good to mention that neither of them is superior when you get down into the cigar. Yeah, sometimes you want that symphony, sometimes you just want that background jazz.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, and neither, neither of them is superior at all, right? So let's talk about strength for a minute.
SPEAKER_04So nicotine strength is again what your body is going to be feeling. Uh, nicot nicotine strength is the physical part. So the symptoms of that can include the headache, um, or the head buzz, light sweat, your increased heart rate, uh, the stomach drop, and potentially that I need food realization pretty quick. Absolutely. And this is where it gets tricky, is some cigars are incredibly smooth, and that shrink is gonna sneak up on you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and that's where it actually gets a little tricky, but as you said, because you're thinking this is creamy, this is smooth, and then out of nowhere it hits you. Yes, and it's just this overwhelming sudden, oh, yeah, yes.
SPEAKER_04This is gonna happen with well-aged or well-balanced cigars that mask the strength behind the smoothness, and strength is also influenced by the primings, so the Lajero versus the Viso versus the Secko, uh, the blend proportions, uh, the fermentation, the ring gauge, and the combustion rate, and an easy draw, either you know, too much air in the draw that can create the nicotine rush in the cigar.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And so, what happens is these different things impact your smoking experience. And there's a cigar on the market today that has a very, very easy draw. I mean, there is so much airflow through the draw, it's it's crazy. Yes, you get so much airflow that even though it's not a super high nicotine content cigar, you get so much of that airflow, it overwhelms your body with nicotine. We actually have a really good friend who typically smokes pre medium to full, full-bodied cigars, absolutely loves um Connecticut Broadleaf, which is a strong cigar most of the time. That this cigar, and I'm not gonna name the cigar, uh, if you know, you know, uh, absolutely overwhelmed him. He had to set it down just about a quarter of an inch into the cigar, and he will not smoke another one.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, absolutely. Um, and so the other thing on that is in the other hand, it's normally the Lajero and blend that provides the strength to create that physical impact.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And so last week we smoked the Lur cigar, and I don't know if you remember that or not, um, but there was a lot of airflow on that one, and we talked about that, it made it feel stronger than it was. And so um, when you're talking about that, um you know, like I said, I won't name it, right? Right, um, but it really is that kind of impact on that other cigar that it just kind of makes him feel drunk, overwhelmed, those kind of things. And then in lure cigar, it really just helps enhance the strength profile so it balances out really well. So I want to get to a couple of comments here real quick and get back on track. Dwayne said, Who gets credit for picking the cigar in the rebel pack? Um, you pick the right one for the show. I'll let Mel handle that one.
SPEAKER_04Uh, so we really talk a lot about what is going in the rebel pack, and we kind of plan out our shows and we do talk together about which cigars we think will go best with the show uh that we are currently doing on the podcast.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And another one is when we talk about body, is that what they're referencing flavor? So I want to address that. We're gonna dig into that a little bit further, but just to jump right into Lou's comment here because it's perfect timing as we begin to maybe transition a little bit. When you are reading a lot of reviews for body, body really is the flavor intensity, it's the the overall body, what's impacting the palate, how it's impacting you, those kinds of things. The problem, Lou, is that so many reviewers, I've listened to a lot of podcasters that really get these things confused and like this is a medium-bodied smoke, this is a full-body smoke. And what they're talking about is strength, they're not talking about flavor, and that's why I think so many cigar enthusiasts, it doesn't matter if you're a novice or an aficionado, I mean you've been smoking for a couple of decades, if you do not understand that flavor intensity plus strength is what delivers balance or body, then you're going to be having the wrong conversation. Um, Dwayne mentioned this being the right cigar for this um particular podcast. The San Latano Habano is a medium to full strength, but I would say it is a full-bodied cigar. That flavor intensity way outperforms the strength, but you can feel both while you're smoking it.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely. I think that's great questions there. Um, Lou said do you feel like people confuse body and strength? I 100% agree. Um, people sometimes do confuse them. And so I'm glad that we're covering this tonight.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so Lou said I'll name it Perdomo Champagne, great cigar. So I do agree people misunderstand that cigar, that is not the cigar we were talking about. Um, however, that is a cigar that a lot of people way undervalue its nicotine level because it's a pretty mild, easy smoke. But if you smoke it too quickly, um, we'll catch you very, very quickly. Um, and I love that he said uh yes in reference to the body and strength conversation. So airflow can definitely impact how much nicotine you're getting. However, most of the time it's normally the Lajero in the blend process that, as you said, that provides to create the physical impact, especially Lajero heavy blends that really deliver a high nicotine nicotine content based on the oils that are in that particular leaf and how thick it is.
SPEAKER_04Yes. Uh, but it's important to remember that La Hero doesn't automatically mean intense flavor. So the Lajero will burn slowly due to the thickness and awfully the oily nature, like you were saying. Um, it's responsible for the highest nicotine content in a cigar. And these leaves, they also can provide intense and some boldness via those high oils, like you were talking about in the leaf, but they're not always going to produce a spicy or bold flavor. Right.
SPEAKER_01Richard brought up that he didn't find um that cigar strong at all. Um, and I agree with the Perdomo. So here's the thing the Perdomo champagne, which I think he's referencing back to, is more of a medium-bodied cigar, but a lot of people like to present it as a mellow to mild. And so I would not say it's a full-body cigar, but it is a much higher nicotine content than I think most people um look at. Yeah. Uh jumping back into and talking about the dials, right? When it comes to cigars, we truly believe here at Cigar Rebel that balance is key.
SPEAKER_04100%. So when we're blending cigars, we focus on ensuring that the flavor outperforms the strength. Uh, we love almost all cigars, but Kevin and I agree we really don't prefer cigars that are strong for this for just the sake of strength without that robust flavor to pair with it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, strong or strength isn't truly the problem. It's when strength overwhelms the flavor that I often find the cigar is just a little too strong to enjoy. I can smoke it, I just don't enjoy it as much.
SPEAKER_04Yes, and so a company that we feel like does this extremely well is actually Romacraft. So they I love the Neanderthal that is constantly on my top seven to top ten list, depending on the day. It's strong, but the flavor intensity in that cigar really shines for me.
SPEAKER_01Yep, and you really do enjoy the Neanderthal, and I enjoy one occasionally. However, if I'm grabbing Roma Craft, I really want to grab an Intemperance, Whiskey Rebellion, maybe a Maya Stranza, something that's more in that medium profile where those flavors really stand out to me.
SPEAKER_04Right. And both of those are great cigars, but nine times out of ten, if I'm going for Roma Craft, I'm always going for that Neanderthal.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And so let's shift gears just for a few minutes and let's really begin to talk about those two dials, Mel. Um, and I really want to introduce this as balance, and I want us to begin to build a kind of graph for our cigar rebels out there. And so, Mel, why don't you walk us through kind of quadrant one? We're calling this the Cigar Rebel Fork. Quadrants. Yes. Um, and so Mel's gonna walk you through a couple of those. I'll walk you through a couple and then we'll show you the graph that you can use to track cigars.
SPEAKER_04So that is perfect. The first one is going to be that quadrant one, which is going to be high flavor and low strength. So bold taste, manageable body. It's gonna be great for flavor chasers, uh, evening smokes, analytical palettes, and doesn't you don't want the physical effects from that.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. So the next quadrant you're gonna see is high flavor, high strength. Um, it's full experience, it's a demanding cigar, both on complexity and strength. And please hear me, Rebels. When I say demanding, I don't mean bad, overwhelming, or wrong. I just mean it takes your attention. And sometimes that's exactly what you want. It's been a long day, you've had a heavy meal. I want a cigar that's going to take my attention and let me forget about all the other things I was worrying about all day. That's a good thing. Yeah, absolutely. And so this quadrant is for when you're prepared, you've eaten, you have time, you enjoy complexity, you enjoy flavor, and you enjoy strength.
SPEAKER_04Yes, number three is going to be low flavor and high strength. So it's often going to be smooth but deceptively powerful. So this is going to be great for the experienced um smoker uh after a big meal, people who want impact without that spice overload, and uh it can be great for those wanting to expand their palate.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Mel, why don't you take us through number four?
SPEAKER_04So, number four is the low strength versus uh low flavor, and so that's gonna be creamy, mellow, conversational cigars, and that is gonna be perfect for newer people who are smoking cigars or people new to smoking cigars. Uh, the last cigar of the day, maybe after several others, you just want something lighter. Uh, the social settings, your morning coffee. Uh, we talk a lot about pairing cigars with coffee, and I'm always shocked at how many people have never tried that. So if you have not tried that, do that the next time you have some coffee. It's also going to be great for those longer sessions.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. So, as we look at these four quadrants, um, really just want to highlight a little bit on this subject to show you a graph. So, this is the quadrant, right? So, this is kind of what we were just talking about. The um top left of high flavor, low strength. To the top right, you have number two, which is high flavor, high strength. Then you have low flavor, low strength, and then um low flavor, high strength. So, this is a graph that you can have, and we're gonna have this out on our cigar rebel page on Facebook, on Instagram, we'll have on the website tomorrow that you can go out there and grab this chart and just print it out, or it's easy, just draw it on a sheet of paper and begin to track cigars as you're smoking them. We would love to know from you guys watching live tonight, or if you're watching this on the replay, go ahead and hashtag replay fam and give us your feedback. We would love to know is something like this helpful to begin to identify where you might believe the cigar is on that profile. If it really is something that is a little bit more um in the high high strength, low flavor, or where does it fit? Like that Neanderthal we were just talking about. And I noticed a couple of different things. Uh, Richard said he got sick on the Neanderthal, which I hate that. Um, illusion number nine is what got me sick early. Um, too fast, they get bitter. I agree. Um, and then um Dwayne said I would put the lectin in the last category perfect morning smoke with a cup of coffee. Um, I agree. We have a cigar that we made for a golf tournament, it's a barber pole. Um, Duane, that I've smoked multiple times in the morning, it's got very low strength and quite honestly, very low flavor. It's just got little hints of cedar, a little hint of the habano spice because it's a barber pole, Connecticut, and Habano. But with a cup of coffee on a cool morning, it shines. And so that's really the idea. Um, Leslie says she loves this idea. I'm looking forward to filling it out. Um, definitely just want to create that graph out there for you, Rebels, to kind of begin to identify. Um, I know David Grofflo's created uh the strengthometer, it's phenomenal, it's gonna be big. It was just published in Cigar Journal, so shout out to all the guys at Two Guys and the work Dave's done on that. Um, but this was just a way of beginning to hone in on is it flavor or is it strength? Because they're just not the same thing, and far too often we begin to seriously mix them up. And what frustrates me is reviewers that are reviewing just to help you choose cigars to smoke, reviewers that are just giving their personal feedback. I love that they define it the way they want to define it, but reviewers that are trying to give a critical professional review in the cigar industry, I really wish they would be more clear between flavor and strength.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I agree with that. Um, you guys have had some great comments. We have more on this subject, but first let's go ahead and take a quick break.
SPEAKER_06We fell in love with cigars, not because it flavors our smoking experience or perceived steps, but because it allows barriers to fall between other humans and build deeper connections. For that reason, we've been super intentional to curate a space where people can find community and join it with others, and cigars just happen to be the way we're doing it. For that reason, we have to be the one and only cigar retail store in the left in the happen to love. A good story is one of the most powerful tools used to connect with another. Sharing stories fades out differences and highlights similarities found in the details with the storyteller. Over the years, we've seen some of the best stories told over cigars, and thus, new friendships are made, passion shared, encouragement given, and so much more. The impact storytelling has on the human connection is why we've decided to name it Store and Level Stories. Because behind every good cigar and conversation is an even better story.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. So next week on Monday night is developing your palette number one, um, how to taste a cigar without sounding fake. Um, we're gonna be smoking the left-hand high maca maca. I'm excited about that cigar, and I'm excited as that episode is a perfect follow-up to this one, in my humble opinion.
SPEAKER_04I agree. I was just about to say that. So March 23rd, we are doing industry discussion, which is going to be discussions on lounges, reviews, and more. So, with that one, we'll be smoking the Sumatra Royale by the Elevated Humidor.
SPEAKER_01And then on the 30th, we have another consumer discussion. Um, we're gonna have David and Addy on with us, and we're gonna have the same conversation, but from a consumer perspective, and we're gonna be smoking the 2025 pumpkin by the elevated humidor. Um, really excited about both of those two episodes back to back so you can see a comparison just like we're doing flavor and strength tonight. You can have a similar comparison between industry and consumer perspective on the same topics.
SPEAKER_04Yes, and then starting that first week of April, we will be doing April. I know that's all I gotta say. How's it's flying by? We've got three more for this March, but still April 6th, we're doing Develop Your Palette number two. So flavor categories and flavor families. That will be we will be smoking the Rocky Patel 30th anniversary. So remember everything from this podcast and also from March 16th when we do the Develop Your Palette number one. It's gonna be a great episode.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And so for those of you that have been asking how to smoke along with us, all of those cigars that we just shared are in the cigar rebel pack. So the cigar rebel pack is available at the Elevated Humidors website. Um, jump out there and you can search it in Google. We're not gonna use all the website language as we know uh some other cigar podcasts have been kicked off YouTube and Facebook. So we're just trying to follow suit. Uh, but you can go to the Elevated Humidors website, click up on the top on the Cigar Rebels, scroll to the bottom, and subscribe to that, and you'll get each of those cigars. It is five cigars,$43, including shipping and tax brought to your door. So far, the average cost or retail value of the packs, um, the three months we've done these is about$71. So you're getting a great value. Um, that Rocky Patel 30th anniversary is gonna be a spectacular one just for that. Um, another quick thing that we want to bring up, just because um several people have been asking us about where we're going to be and what we're gonna be doing. So I just want to throw this graphic up there this Friday night, and then Saturday, we're gonna be in Fort Worth, Texas at Underground Cigar Shop, um, where we are going to be hosting a Garrison Brothers um bourbon tasting on Friday night. This is a part of the Underground Cigars NFG conference. You can go out and search Underground Cigar Shop online. Um, tickets are about a hundred bucks. You get cigars and the ability to come in, and you're gonna have lots of discounts on cigars as well as access to this. We have blended a Maduro cigar called the Hellmouth Maduro specifically for that event. And then Stories Cigars and Lounge is having Cigar Fest coming up on May 2nd. Tickets go live later this week. Just want to throw that out there because several of you have asked us to share about when we're out there and what we're gonna be doing. So, Mel, why don't you give us your feedback so far? And I'd love to hear from anybody smoking the cigar, what your thoughts are this far into the cigar.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so I am about halfway through this cigar at this point, and it's you know, it started off with some notes of that savouriness, that woodiness, or that earthiness, depending on which which description you want to use. Um, it's got a nice, kind of strong and spicy core to it. Absolutely, and it definitely has, you know, some complex and rich and oily textures that are gonna balance out that pepper.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And there's there's a subtle sweetness to this cigar. Um, I don't know if it's from the filler that's there or if it's the Brazilian habano, because there's almost a carmelus that's just a little bit of a sweetness to it, and so definitely love that. Um, I love that uh Martin said we tempted enough that he stepped out into his lounge, which is a garage to join you. So glad you're doing that tonight, Martin. Um, Dwayne said it's hard to tell a new cigar smoker to try strength without taking into consideration their flavor profile, or vice versa. We run the risk of losing someone, absolutely. Um, Alex said there's a physical way to tell. Strength is how the cigar makes you feel. Does your heartbeat faster, get a tingle in the palate, skin becomes clammy? That strength, absolutely. Um, physical response, useful strength, flavor, saliva response, eat so body, or we would call body flavor intensity here. Um, and Duane just brought up that that was right. So thank you for all your responses and chatting along the way. Um, let's jump right back into the topic, Mel. We've got just a few more things to clear up before we're out of here tonight. Um, love spending our money nights with you, so let's jump in.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so there is a reason why great reviews separate the terms like we're talking about tonight when describing cigars. So if you look at reviewers who are doing doing it well, they're going to use the words like mild, medium, and full, and that's going to be for strength. And then they're going to use light, medium, and full-bodied, and usually that is going to be for the flavor intensity.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And Cigar Journal and Cigar Aficionado are two publications that do this very, very well. I enjoy reading them and in their scoring summaries because they give a great description of strength and body or flavor intensity.
SPEAKER_04Yes, they these reviewers I feel like really understand the distinction between those categories.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And when we're educating tobacconists on our cigar brand, um, or we're working and doing cigar 101 with new cigar smokers or experienced smokers, we really want to take through the time and talk about balance and how balance is the appropriateness between flavor and strength. And again, at the end of the day, every cigar smoker has their own palette and the right to smoke what they enjoy. If they prefer a high strength, low flavor, if they enjoy a high flavor, low strength, or high, high, low, low, that's their decision. But helping educate somebody to get there is the important part of what we're concerned about.
SPEAKER_04Right. And really, the everyday smoker doesn't always get that breakdown explained to them clearly, and in the end, the confusion hurts your buying decisions and what you're reaching for to smoke.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. If you say I do not like strong cigars, what you might mean is I don't like high nicotine, I don't like pepper bombs, I don't like busy transitions, I don't like harshness.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and those are all four different issues, honestly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but Mel, once you separate them and understand them, your shopping and purchasing of cigars becomes so much better. 100% instead of this is strong, you begin to look at how's the nicotine? Is it flavor for it? Is it pepper heavy? Is it smooth but powerful? Is it complex? Those are things you can begin to understand as a cigar smoker.
SPEAKER_04Right, and those changes completely change the entire conversation in the lounge and also your entire shopping experience.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04So next time you smoke a cigar, think about the two distinct dials that we are talking about. Just questions.
SPEAKER_01Right, and you can ask yourself these questions how loud is my flavor, or how intense is the flavor versus how strong is the cigar? And then you can rate each on a one to five, just like we said, utilizing this chart that we have up, that um one to five being flavor versus one to five being strength, and you can truly begin to understand maybe you like a flavor number four and a strength at a two, or maybe you like a flavor at a two and a strength of a four.
SPEAKER_04Right. So it's great to ask, like you said, the first question is how loud are the flavors. Second question, how does my body feel when smoking that cigar?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and really once you know the numbers, you stop chasing hype, you stop chasing brands, and you start chasing experiences that you enjoy.
SPEAKER_04A hundred percent. So here is the cheat code flavor, intensity, and strength are not the same. I think we've tried to make that very clear in this podcast. One lives on your palate and one lives in your bloodstream. Those are the separate dials, and this is going to allow you to build and understand your palate in greater detail. It's also going to allow you to smoke intentionally instead of just hoping for the best.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And so what happens is it begins to allow you to understand what you're enjoying, it begins to allow you to understand where your preferences are. And here is the truth of the matter. And I'd love any feedback, somebody watching live, or again, if you're on the replay, we'd love your feedback. You might like different combinations depending on the time of day you're smoking or what you've eaten that day, what your stress level's been that day. It's like Mel, would you define one category of those four that is your preference?
SPEAKER_04Depend. I mean, it really depends on the day for me. I mean, and what I'm like you're saying, what I'm craving. There are some days that I really want something more low in strength, but I always want, or almost always want, great flavor.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. So Dwayne said, you know, the question is what is the proper rating? Whole numbers for strength and quarter points for flavor, or vice versa, um, would be a better way to rate a cigar. Um, I that could be. Um, Lou said, you know, flavor and strength should be separate. Um, strengthometer confuses both, in my opinion. Uh, Lou, I am not gonna throw anything that those guys do uh under the bus on our show. Uh, but I I agree, I do think sometimes the conversation of flavor and strength, uh, Mr. J calls it out all the time, and I love that. Um, him and Dave argue over that occasionally. Um, but again, this is where I feel like it really depends on what the purpose of the review is. So for me, you really have to rate them on a one to five individually in order to understand. On our cigar rating, and we did a cigar rating episode a couple of weeks ago. Um, also in these notes of this show and out on um social media, I post the flavor graph, um, flavor versus strength graph. I'll also post a link to our rating page. It's a hidden page on our website, so you have to have the link to get to it. Um, but it actually breaks down 10 different categories that lets you rate a cigar to get to a number. Um, flavor is one, strength is one, and balance is one. Um, because you can rate the strength, you can rate the flavor, but the reality is you have to rate the balance in order to get a good number.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_01Um, Lou said the best part of the show is when they argue. Um, absolutely. Mel and I try not to argue, uh, however, uh it happens occasionally, unfortunately, um, rarely on the show. Um, but Mel, what are you thinking about this cigar? What is your thoughts? Where we're at so far today.
SPEAKER_04So I feel like the first half I smoked really pretty quickly, and I've really slowed down. I was about halfway through the cigar after the break, and now I'm I'm only a little bit more in, so maybe I've got a little bit more than a third left. Um, and honestly, it's it's held pretty straight for me so far. I don't think I've hit that final transition yet. Um I don't know about I don't know about you, but uh it's got a lot of those same notes that I mentioned earlier. Some, you know, maybe a little bit more of that sweet cedar to maybe kind of go with that woodiness I was mentioning earlier. There's a little bit of dried fruit, uh, but it has a very creamy texture to it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's definitely a very, very creamy, very, very um focused intensity as well, kind of on the finish. And so as we look at that, I really think um I'm picking up a heavier woodiness and a heavier sweetness, but that pepper hasn't gone away.
SPEAKER_04Right. Um, and I think that this cigar definitely fits into high flavor and also the high strength category. And the flavor intensity is medium to full. And I would say that the strength, you know, like we kind of talked about at the beginning of the show, this cigar sits right there as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. Um, so that's really our flavor intensity versus strength. Um, would love to hear back from you guys what you think on balance. Um, and if you think balance is the priority. Um, Dwayne just said, you know, a 3.5 so far on the scale of one to five. So Dwayne, was that on was that on strength or on flavor? Um, I don't know. I don't know if you want to rate the cigar. Where do you think it is on strength?
SPEAKER_04On strength, that's tough. I would probably say a maybe a three and a half for me is probably a good gauge. I generally try to just use whole numbers when we're talking about strength. Um, because I feel like you start getting into decimal points and it some people love it, some people hate it. I try to just stick to more of a like a full point system if I can. Uh so I would say a three and a half though is probably a great, great marking. I wouldn't say it's quite a three, but I definitely for me, I don't know that it's a four. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I I would say it's probably that three and a half is probably good. Um, when I come to flavor, I would say it's a four.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Flavor definitely solid four for me.
SPEAKER_01So going back to the chart, just real quick, um, this would put that really kind of in that high flavor, high strength category, um, category or box two on this chart. Um, and I think that's where had you asked me before we smoked it and talked about it, that is where I would have placed this cigar. Um, Dwayne was saying that's on strength. Um so what do you think about flavor? Do you agree with that?
SPEAKER_04That the flavor, yeah. I would say this is a four for me for flavor, for sure.
SPEAKER_01Perfect. Um, Leslie's saying she can't wait home to get home and um smoke this one, plus excited about the new chart. Um, Dwayne said it's not a four. Um, I agree with that, it's definitely not a four on strength, on flavor. I would say it's a four. I would love to know what your thoughts are flavor-wise, Dwayne. Um, we've got just a few minutes left here, and last week's episode was the 2025 in review. And so we did not get to our predictions of what we thought 2026 would be. And so I want to talk just a little bit about that, Mel. I've got the notes here for us. Yeah, perfect. Um, the first one, um, really predictions. We're just gonna talk about a couple. Um, sorry, let's jump right in there. Dwayne says flavor is a 4.25. I agree. I mean, we're right there together. So we talked about the cigar boom kind of being over. So I think the 2026 prediction um is the boom is stabilizing, um, but demand is gonna remain strong. And I think what you're gonna see is a continuation of growth in the cigar industry. I think all the conversations around Cuba, um, all the conversation around Nicaragua is going to impact how that looks. And so I think some of your cigar manufacturers are going to diversify a little bit, and we're gonna get some new, unique cigars out of these manufacturers as they begin to work in other countries.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I would agree with that.
SPEAKER_01So, what do you think second, Mel?
SPEAKER_04So I think number two is going to be that consumers are becoming much more value focused when they are choosing their cigars. We've talked about this a couple of times, um, just briefly, really, on other podcasts. Uh, just we've seen talked about the McAuliffe effect and their color series. You know, great cigar for a low price. I think a lot of consumers are really uh making sure that their dollar is going towards a cigar that they like. And if it's in a budget-friendly price point, that's even better.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think high-end cigars will still sell that$20 plus,$30 cigars, but I think you're going to see after this year's PCA, you're going to see the end of the$25 plus cigar, at least for a little bit. I think a lot of these companies are going to start going toward that value offering, either lowering the cost of their core line or coming out with an additional line that's more of their value offering. Um, the third prediction that we really feel like is going to be so true in 2026 is the Toro is going to continue to dominate and Gordos will pick up steam. However, a lot of cigar smokers just do not love a Gordo, the mouth fill. Um, so they're gonna stick with the Toro probably in a at a high side of 54. Um, you know, like the Perdomo um 12th, um I would say 12th anniversary. I think it is 12th anniversary, um, is I think a 56. That's even a little bit on the high larger side, but I think that 50 to 56 and 50 to 54 is gonna dominate the industry. Um, larger ring gauge cigars are going to continue to grow, but not at the same rate. Um, and then I think Robusto's unfortunately my favorites or my second favorite size, really Corona being the favorite, are they gonna continue to decline a little bit and we're gonna see a little bit less of them coming out in releases, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_04Yes. Uh so number four is going to be uh that Nicaragua will really be the dominant uh procurer of cigars or yeah, the dominant importers, the dominant region, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I agree. I think that's a big deal. Dwayne is saying that unfortunately um the gas price increase one-pack cigar smoking for a short period of time as consumers pull back on purchases. Um, Dwayne, I agree, and I think that's where you're gonna see that value cigar take over. Um, is I think people may not slow down the number of cigars they smoke, but they may actually just change what they're buying and what they're going after. Um, Lou mentions that sometimes a 60 just tastes better, but I agree the Toro and Chrona sizes. Um, the one thing is I think boutique brands will continue to grow. I think you're gonna see a few more boutique brands coming onto the scene, but I think the boutique brands that have a strong connection out there will continue to grow and have good traction. Um, I think the one thing that you have to watch out for the boutique brands is really understanding the difference between craft brands and boutique boutique, meaning um that our distinction is craft is some of the smaller brands that are newer and growing. Boutique brands are still small compared to the legacies, but often owned by one of the larger ones. Um, I think they'll continue to grow out of curiosity, and as that$10 to$16 price range normalizes, a lot of them fall in that range. You know, we really have shot from eight to twelve dollars, and that's where we try and stay with our cigar brand. I think we'll continue to actually get um traction as those prices normalize.
SPEAKER_04Right. Number six is going to be limited editions, will continue to drive uh consumers, and it will be really interesting to see as time goes on, and we talk about you know consumers being more than on their budget buys. Absolutely. The limited editions will follow suit will follow suit to also be kind of in that eight to twelve, eight to thirteen dollar range versus maybe a more expensive limited edition.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And then so a couple more for you guys tonight. The lounge experience, I believe, will matter more than ever. New cigar smokers do not happen from website purchases. New cigar smokers happen. Someone walks into a lounge, a buddy brings them to the shop, they have a bachelor party, and a tobacconist helps them find a cigar that fits their palate based on what coffee they drink, how they eat their steak, whatever the question is that they're asking. Um, but I do think as the cigar industry continues to grow, as we're getting new smokers, as women become more involved in the cigar industry, the social aspect and the introduction aspect, lounges are going to be more important in 2026, in my opinion, than they've ever been.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I agree with that. Uh, I think that's a great, a great thought, even when we've gone to some lounges where maybe it's a lounge and a bar or a lounge and a restaurant. You don't necessarily have that same connection that you do when you go into what is just a cigar lounge that has a dedicated tobacconist, you know, who knows the inside and outside of the humidor, all of those things.
SPEAKER_01Dwayne brought up a great point. He says concern about the BM shops because some of the guys he works with are migrating to magazine online stores, um, which could impact. Um, definitely agree that that is impacting cigar shops, local um brick and mortars. Um, we talk about that all the time. And I think when you look at that aspect of the industry, that is definitely a concern. Um, the brick and mortar shop is how people grow. As you mentioned, Dwayne, the cigar smokers that you work with. Um, very few pick up the um hobby um through just seeing a magazine. However, some people do um definitely think we need to focus in on how do we provide better experiences and cigar shops when ran well can be sustainable and even profitable. The problem is so many cigar shops treat it as a hobby instead of as a business. Um, David Grofflow and two guys do is an exceptional show of how a shop can be built and grown. We would like to think we're doing a good job with our partners at Stories, um, who is sustainable. We saw a little bit of a growth in volume this year, um, which was wonderful. And we feel like this year, although it's been a little um unstable because of all the things happening economically, it definitely is something that is happening. Um, Martin said I'm quite new to the hobby for now. I'm sampling all the house plans of my shop. That's a great place to start, Martin. Um, brand cigars for Canada are 50 to 20 more than prices in the US. I'm developing my palette for now. I absolutely love that, Martin, and good luck to you. Ask any questions, you can reach out to us through social media, jump on the podcast. Um, Alex and this is why I have a mobile shop. I bring the experience to you. Um, absolutely agree. There's a lot of options, and that's definitely growing. Um, pricing in the industry will continue to rise slowly. I don't think even if tariffs go away, we're gonna see a decrease. Um, and I really do feel like that's one of the things happening. And Mel, we have two more. Why don't you hit the last one?
SPEAKER_04Uh the last one, or second to last one, is that the flavor profiles will continue to be getting bolder. I think, especially, we've seen in our lounge uh some people as they grow their palate and they get more familiar um with the knowledge base of what cigars they like and all of those things, they continue to want to maybe move up to that next boldness of the cigar.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And I think, and Richard said you know, never found um Dunbarton, West Tampa, HVC, LFD, and the more if it wasn't for two guys. Um, absolutely. And the last prediction we have is consumer experiences will continue to grow. I think the shops and the cigar brands out there, and particularly people like Alex, two guys, us at Story, Cigar Rebel, our brand, is how do we bring better experiences to the cigar smoker and continue to elevate that experience? I truly believe that is how we keep enthusiasts engaged, and I think it's how we grow cigar smokers in this hobby that we all love and are passionate about. And I think we're gonna see more and more of that over the course of the next 12 months as you see more events, more steak dinners, more cigar pairings, more wine and cigar, bourbon and cigar. And I really just feel like that's kind of the future of cigar shops if you're going to be successful. It's got to be more than just coming in and picking up a couple of sticks on the way home, but it's really got to be how do we push for it? Right. Martin says, I hope I just hope they would allow lounges back in Ontario. Um, I would agree 100%. Um, Lou said he agrees um with Rich. Um, Rich said, and the Rebels too. Thank you so much for that, Richard. We appreciate that. Um, and then finally, Alex is by branding together to push the cigar culture forward. That's how we do it 100%. Um, for tonight, guys, I think that's our show. We kind of talked about flavor versus strength and how do we define balance? Hopefully that was enjoyable and educational to you guys, um, as our focus here is to be educational. And then we jumped a little bit to the 2026 predictions. I know that was a little bit of a left turn or a hard left turn, um, but we promised you guys last week we would drop them in, and we just wanted to make sure we had enough time to do that tonight. Um, but for tonight, well, I think that's really our show. So what's next?
SPEAKER_04I mean, thank you guys so much for joining us. Love seeing uh everyone who has continued to be here and also some of the newer faces. Uh, if you liked this episode, please leave us a review, share with your cigar friends, and of course, hit us up with any topics you would love for us to dive into in future episodes.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And so make sure you go down there and click that subscribe button, follow us on Facebook or Instagram at Cigar Rebels. Um, out on YouTube, we have our upcoming shows. You can click notify me. I noticed today YouTube took some of those down. I was able to reprocess them, they'll all be up tomorrow. Um, appreciate the great feedback from Duane and others. Um, but for tonight, good night, guys. Mel, why don't you close us out?
SPEAKER_04Yes, we will see you guys next Monday at 7 p.m. Central time. And until then, keep your cigars lit, your ash long, and your palette curious.
SPEAKER_01Have a good night, Rebels.